These Lies Car Sellers Tell Are Not Illegal - The Podcast

"SteveLehto" (stevelehto) 10/08/2015 at 09:00 • Filed to: None

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Every few days, someone calls me to complain about how a car seller “lied” to them and now they want to sue the seller. For some reason, people don’t understand that people can lie all day long and there’s often nothing you can do about it legally. Thus, this week’s podcast.

There are a variety of common lies that car sellers have in their arsenal. “This car runs great.” “This is a great price for this car.” “You have to buy the GAP coverage.” Yes, those - and more! - are lies. And if you don’t know that when you hear them, then that’s on you.

You can’t sue someone simply because they lied to you. Don’t get me wrong: There are some kinds of lies they cannot tell and some possilble consequences from some kinds of fraudulent lies that could lead to a legal cause of action. But the MERE act of lying does not mean the person can be sued.

And, in this day and age, most of the stuff a car seller might lie to you about can be checked on the internet. Great price? Do some research. The last car of its kind in the county? That’s easy enough to look into.

So, this week’s podcast. The audio:

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And the video:

And the top pic is simply a car I saw in traffic. It demonstrates one of the advantages of being a Mason: You can obscure your license plate with a Masonic plate cover and the police cannot pull you over for having an obscured plate. After all, Masons outrank cops.

Follow me on Twitter: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Hear my podcast on iTunes: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Steve Lehto has been practicing law for 23 years, almost exclusively in consumer protection and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! He wrote !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

This website may supply general information about the law but it is for informational purposes only. This does not create an attorney-client relationship and is not meant to constitute legal advice, so the good news is we’re not billing you by the hour for reading this. The bad news is that you shouldn’t act upon any of the information without consulting a qualified professional attorney who will, probably, bill you by the hour.

450X_FTW > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 09:06

6

So if a the dealer tells me that “this EcoBoost technology is amazing” I can’t sue them because I later find out it’s not actually amazing, it’s just direct injection and forced induction???

Steve in Manhattan > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 09:08

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W, Cheney, Yoo, Addington, Wolfowitz, Kristol, Frum, Powell - they all lied without consequence and the resulting war was ... wait, what? Oh, cars. Forgot myself for a second.

SteveLehto > 450X_FTW 10/08/2015 at 09:12

15

But is IS AMAZING!

Oh, truth is so subjective.

SteveLehto > Steve in Manhattan 10/08/2015 at 09:13

5

Face it: We’ve gotten to the point where anyone can just say anything for the most part.

450X_FTW > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 09:13

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Yep I’m convinced, I’ll take 2 EcoBoosts please and thank you

Steve in Manhattan > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 09:20

10

Witness Carly Fiorina and the clip she saw of Planned Parenthood chopping up a fetus. But there is no such clip. And Jake Tapper never challenged her to send it to him. No consequences.

And cars? Caveat emptor. Totally.

SteveLehto > 450X_FTW 10/08/2015 at 09:23

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You’d better take three. They’re only going to go up in value.

SteveLehto > Steve in Manhattan 10/08/2015 at 09:24

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I’m pretty sure that I saw Carly Fiorina eating a baby in the green room before that debate. (Try and prove otherwise.)

TractorPillow > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 09:26

5

You’re advice is like a survival/wilderness expert but for car dealerships. “Don’t go alone, watch out, be prepared”

Just sent to a friend who is clueless about car buying but is looking. He thought it was awesome as well!

SteveLehto > TractorPillow 10/08/2015 at 09:35

2

Thanks. It’s amazing how many times I hear from people later who wish they’d brought someone with them.

TractorPillow > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 09:41

5

Absolutely. Too many emotions, shiny paint, and new car smell can ruin the best of us.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 09:48

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That license plate can’t be legal. Shenanigans!

Nick > TractorPillow 10/08/2015 at 09:52

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It’s dangerous to go alone!

Take a Lehto with you!

Chariotoflove > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 10:04

3

Here in Texas, we have front and rear license plates, but there is this lore going round that the front one is optional. So many cars don’t have front plates on and I heard this from so many people when I moved here that I actually called the state to check. Nope, not optional. Amazing how's these things can happen.

SteveLehto > Chariotoflove 10/08/2015 at 10:07

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I remember when MICH required both. My brother had a couple of early Trans Ams and refused to put them on. He never got pulled over but you always knew it could be an excuse to do so.

Chariotoflove > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 10:12

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And that’s the way it is. People know which laws will be enforced and which won’t. Here it’s very much the Wild West in most things on the road, except for school zones. Everyone here, no matter who they are or how they drive, slows to 20 immediately in a school zone. It’s because the fines are so high (something like 100 dollars for each mph over 20, I was told), and the fact that they are enforced, that NO ONE will violate them. I’m pretty sure that a high-speed chase from a bank robbery would slow to 20 mph through a school zone.

Urambo Tauro > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 10:21

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You can obscure your license plate with a Masonic plate cover and the police cannot pull you over for having an obscured plate. After all, Masons outrank cops.

This being the internet, someone is bound to miss Steve’s sarcasm. None of the information on the plate may be obscured ( or partially obscured ) in any fashion.

SteveLehto > Urambo Tauro 10/08/2015 at 10:25

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How right you are. I once gave a talk and showed a photo of a bunch of people standing outdoors in 1920. All the men were wearing hats. I jokingly said, “This photo was taken during the time when it was obviously illegal for a man to go outdoors without wearing a hat.”

The audience laughed.

During the Q&A, a young woman raised her hand and asked me where she could find the citation for the “hat” law.

Prophet of hoon > 450X_FTW 10/08/2015 at 10:29

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You CAN sue them for this, however, there isn’t a court in this land that will find for a Ford owner. In “why can’t we have nice Fords vs. Obama” the Court held that there is no such thing as a nice Ford and further held that people who own Fords have a mental defect. The Court held that because Congress has not acted in adding the well-known Ford-defect to Title VII that the Court is powerless to award to the plaintiff.

Sorry, I believe you when you say you suffer from Ford - I suffer from them too.

gin-san - shitpost specialist > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 10:29

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I've seen the video!

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 10:30

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Don’t forget to get the undercoating on them. Ecoboost is the savior for engines, but not for rust.....And that’s where the TruCoat comes in!

Justin Hughes > Urambo Tauro 10/08/2015 at 10:31

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You should sue Steve for lying to you and see how far you get.

Prophet of hoon > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 10:32

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In my potential-client talk, I tell my clients that there is a large chasm between morality and what the law supports or prohibits. In fact, I assert, that morality and law don’t exist in the same universe.

WarShrike > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 10:33

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^_^

Steve in Manhattan > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 10:35

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It would be irresponsible not to speculate!

pwade3 > Chariotoflove 10/08/2015 at 10:36

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I see cars in Ohio without front plates all the time, yet we require both.

After a guy got pulled over for failing to display a front plate and wound up getting shot, there’s people trying to get it changed to no longer being required or only being a secondary offence. I really hope it gets settled before I get a new vehicle so I can avoid drilling holes into it if I can.

sonicgabe > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 10/08/2015 at 10:36

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I’m going to ask a Mason about this. There is a Masonic retirement home right down the street from me. Should be fun, right?

baby driver > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 10:37

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they’ll go up more than a TDI, amirite?

Le Monstre > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 10/08/2015 at 10:38

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We get a police officer that comes in with a White SRX and his front plate cover (Which any cover, clear,smoke,blue, etc. is considered illegal, I’ve been pestered before having clear ones on) Is a hologram-mirror like, so straight up front, you can see the plate, but move to the sides and it’s just a mirror, yup must be nice to be a cop....

yinyang1994 > Chariotoflove 10/08/2015 at 10:39

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In Ohio we are also a front and rear plate state, but its the same case where half the cars on the road don’t have one on the front. So at first I assumed it was okay, then looked it up and decided, “obviously no one gets pulled over for this, I’ll just leave it off,” and then less than 4 months after owning the car i was pulled over, so I started keeping the plate up on the dash visible through the windshield and was pulled over again for for it another 2 months later. No other offense, literally just pulled over and told I need the plate on the front. The second time I had 5 days to go up to the station to show them I actually put it on there or I’d get a warrant. I don’t get how everyone else on the roads go so long without it.

andrewsalaxar > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 10:41

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You should have told her it was in Utah, it would have explained everything. /Joking

cstealth > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 10:53

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The title is a great juxtaposition with the story that follows it (congress vs VW).

albo > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 10/08/2015 at 10:56

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My old boss joined the state sheriff's association (he was not one) and they gave him a badge-like thingy that he put on his license plate that obscured at least one letter

Urambo Tauro > Justin Hughes 10/08/2015 at 10:57

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You should sue Steve for lying to you and see how far you get.

I should!

This website may supply general information about the law but it is for informational purposes only. This does not create an attorney-client relationship and is not meant to constitute legal advice, so the good news is we’re not billing you by the hour for reading this. The bad news is thatyou shouldn’t act upon any of the information without consulting a qualified professional attorney who will, probably, bill you by the hour.

Shit. This guy’s good.

The Devil Drives a Mustang (Rotary Pending) > Chariotoflove 10/08/2015 at 10:59

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It’s what I call a “de-facto secondary offense”. That is, a traffic violation that the cop won’t initiate a stop for, but if he already has you pulled over for something else he is more than happy to tack it on.

And yes, also a good excuse if he wants to pull you over for whatever reason.

The Devil Drives a Mustang (Rotary Pending) > Chariotoflove 10/08/2015 at 11:03

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Tell that to the people on my commute in North Dallas. I go 20 religiously in a school zone because I don’t want that ticket. But I get tailgated and passed all the same. Not like at 30-40, but definitely 25. And it’s 2 schools in particular: Stinson Elementary and Otto Middle School. Everyone obeys the school zones for the others on my route, but not for those. Kinda weird.

schwartz > 450X_FTW 10/08/2015 at 11:05

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How about this truck is EPA rated at 15 city/21 highway and your truck getting a combined average of 13.2 is perfectly normal for the 3.5L ecoboost.

xenol > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 11:06

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Is that better than the half-truths? (“It ran when I parked it”)

450X_FTW > schwartz 10/08/2015 at 11:07

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*your experience may differ

And with that they are exempt, until a crapload of people complain then it’s a problem

west-coaster > 450X_FTW 10/08/2015 at 11:08

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“And gotta get the TK421 modification.”

flabberboozled > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 10/08/2015 at 11:08

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Cops + Shenanigans = pistol whip.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Le Monstre 10/08/2015 at 11:18

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They’re not all like that you know, only the dicks, and theirs dicks in every profession.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > flabberboozled 10/08/2015 at 11:19

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450X_FTW > west-coaster 10/08/2015 at 11:20

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Yeah, you need all that boost

the dude > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 11:21

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Do you always buy GAP coverage when you buy a new car? I have never purchased a new car so this is something I don't know about.

sgtyukon > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 11:23

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“You can obscure your license plate with a Masonic plate cover and the police cannot pull you over for having an obscured plate. After all, Masons outrank cops.”

Any license plate cover, even a transparent one, is illegal where I live. I’ve never seen it enforced for transparent ones and I’ve never seen one that blocked the plate. The law was passed when vendors started selling plate covers that defeated red light and toll booth cameras.

haveacarortwoorthree2 > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 11:24

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Mason, hell I thought that guy was a Star Fleet officer. And the mind meld that he said caused me to pass out must have been a roofie. So what was the alien probe? OHMIGAWD!

SteveLehto > the dude 10/08/2015 at 11:25

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I never have. I personally think it is a scam but others may think differently.

SteveLehto > sgtyukon 10/08/2015 at 11:26

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They’re pretty much illegal everywhere. This one certainly is: It obscures the plate. I’m just guessing at the owner’s thought process.

Tohru > baby driver 10/08/2015 at 11:26

1

The PT Cruiser DeMuro ran over is gaining value faster than TDI’s are.

Last I heard Condition A cars were selling at dealer auction for about $5k less than Black Book poor condition price.

STEVOH > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 10/08/2015 at 11:30

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If you buy the new Alluminium Eco-boost f150 they don’t rust, ever! You still have to buy the enviro-guard though. It’s mandatory

the dude > TractorPillow 10/08/2015 at 11:32

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I refer to car stealerships as ‘Bat Country’.

Chariotoflove > The Devil Drives a Mustang (Rotary Pending) 10/08/2015 at 11:34

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Wow. Maybe they know someone at city hall? Never seen that.

FYI, I checked on the fines:

“Other than the $25.00 court cost, fines for a Texas school zone ticket can vary based on what city, county, or municipality you are stopped in. For example, if you get caught speeding in a school zone in Houston, fines start out at $215 for going 1-5 miles per hour above the posted speed limit and go to $325 if you are going more than 30 miles per hour over. In San Antonio, the fines for speeding in a school zone start at $206 for the first ten miles per hour over the limit, and go up by $5.00 for each additional mile. In Austin, the standard fine starts at $204 for 5 miles over and increases to reach $326 if you are going more 30 miles per hour”

Chariotoflove > pwade3 10/08/2015 at 11:37

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Front plates aren't very useful, and they do mess up the look of the front of your car.

Tom McParland > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 11:40

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“Bro...this “Oppo” sticker gives you like 20 horsepower.”

Michael Palmer > Chariotoflove 10/08/2015 at 11:41

2

Saw a BMW once with a Texas plate in the back and an Oklahoma one in the front. And that was here in Canada, so he must have gotten away with it not only driving across multiple states but even when crossing the border.

Blze001 > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 11:41

3

If you wanna really get down to it, we sit in 3000lb metal devices that are propelled forward by violently exploding the liquified remains of million year old giant lizards.

Mind. Blown.

Chariotoflove > Michael Palmer 10/08/2015 at 11:43

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Hah! I'd like to know the story behind that.

General Mayhem > 450X_FTW 10/08/2015 at 11:43

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Keep your Ecoboost, I’ll take SkyActiv Technology!!!

MHunter905 > haveacarortwoorthree2 10/08/2015 at 11:44

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Cosby’d

General Mayhem > Steve in Manhattan 10/08/2015 at 11:45

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What does that say about those that fell for said lies? Answer: nothing good.

wantsaclassyhonda89 > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 11:46

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So basically you’re saying, “Take anything a dealer says with a grain of salt and get it in writing?” This is why research is important. I’m researching vehicles right now. I’m currently deciding between a Ford Fiesta, Nissan Sentra, Dodge Dart, and Chevy Spark.

General Mayhem > pwade3 10/08/2015 at 11:48

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Got pulled over for that some years ago in Bellevue, OH. Only got a warning tho, and the lady cop was kinda hot. So there’s that.

General Mayhem > Chariotoflove 10/08/2015 at 11:48

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So much this.

MHunter905 > 450X_FTW 10/08/2015 at 11:49

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Almost every car manufacturer has their form of turbo and/or direct injection like Ford’s EcoBoost - EathDreams (Honda) - EcoTech (GM) etc. EcoBoost is a marketing scheme, nothing more.

The Devil Drives a Mustang (Rotary Pending) > Chariotoflove 10/08/2015 at 11:51

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The only explanation I have is that the road in question is one of those roads that you find in Texas suburbs. Roads that are all but highways. 2 lanes in each direction with a median and cutouts for every turn. Really, 40 mph is too slow for these roads, and the school zone there could reasonably be 25mph. So maybe people don’t feel like they need to go 20 I guess?

450X_FTW > MHunter905 10/08/2015 at 11:51

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I know, hence the sarcasm. Every auto maker has a hardon for the word “eco”

LodestarRunner > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 10/08/2015 at 11:55

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ILLUMINATI.

Naughty0ne > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 12:06

3

Reminds me of my favorite line I see on craigslist all the time.

“Runs great. Blown head gasket.”

Naughty0ne > wantsaclassyhonda89 10/08/2015 at 12:09

2

Well, you can toss the Spark and Dart no problem. So that leaves the Fiesta and Sentra. If you aren’t OK with a CVT that leaves just the Fiesta.

Nick > flabberboozled 10/08/2015 at 12:18

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weird gif, still combo

Umrguy42: Add $5 for shipping and handling > the dude 10/08/2015 at 12:22

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I’ve always put enough down on the car in the first place that I haven’t needed GAP coverage. (In fact, the F&I lady on the last one explicitly said that as she was running through her list of things we were supposed to go over.)

Dolby109 > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 12:22

1

So if you were to buy a car on Ebay or something else cross country where it was advertised as "runs good and drives", and then you get it and its got a bad rod knock or something else very obviously wrong with it...is there no recourse?

Stan > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 12:23

1

Yup. All subjective statements.

This guy, on the other hand, is lying.

Buckus > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 12:24

1

Well, you don’t want to lose money on this deal...

SaintClarence27 > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 12:25

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The lying thing is something I run into just about every day as an attorney. People always think there should be a cause of action if they’re lied to. The corrollary, of course, is that people think that they can get out of criminal charges if the police lied to them.

the dude > Umrguy42: Add $5 for shipping and handling 10/08/2015 at 12:25

1

I figure if I ever decide to buy new in the future I would probably do this to not mess with that.

Umrguy42: Add $5 for shipping and handling > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 12:26

0

After all, Masons outrank cops.

What about the Masonic Police ?

KPKING > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 12:26

1

Went with my brother while he was looking for a new Truck had the Finance guy tell me I could not be in the office with my brother while they discussed financing. I looked at my brother and sat down anyway. I thought the Finance guy was going to blow a fuse but he said nothing more about me being in his office and he “continued running numbers” (I just did air quotes around that) Ended up financing through his Credit Union instead of the dealer.

Bdog > the dude 10/08/2015 at 12:27

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Good idea for somebody putting zero down and has no cash reserves. You know, those folks who shouldn't be buying a new car in the first place.... Credit unions usually have really cheap gap insurance though.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > andrewsalaxar 10/08/2015 at 12:36

0

Not Utah... Florida... LOL

SteveLehto > Umrguy42: Add $5 for shipping and handling 10/08/2015 at 12:38

1

Do they outrank the Church Police ?

SteveLehto > Dolby109 10/08/2015 at 12:39

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Not really. “Good” is subjective and it WILL drive with that knock. At least for a bit.

Bdog > wantsaclassyhonda89 10/08/2015 at 12:39

1

Fiesta 1.0 turbo is AMAZING! Seriously... Bought one in march, and we picked up another two weeks ago. Fiesta #1 already has 11,000 miles. I get 42mpg mixed Seattle and Portland commuting And close to 50 all highway driving. Cruise set at 60 MPH it’ll do close to 60MPG!

Dolby109 > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 12:41

1

Even if without a warranty isn't there a law that guarantees a product works as intended when received?

SteveLehto > Dolby109 10/08/2015 at 12:42

1

No. That’s what a warranty is.

Umrguy42: Add $5 for shipping and handling > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 12:43

2

Are we talking a Detective Parson, or a Vicar Sergeant?

AndyG_UK > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 12:59

0

My god buying cars in the US sounds scary, do you people not have any consumer protection laws??

SteveLehto > AndyG_UK 10/08/2015 at 13:02

2

Barely.

AndyG_UK > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 13:14

1

Scary! Dealers in the UK have to be very careful what they say too customers and there is no such thing as ‘sold as seen‘ when buying from a dealer either, warranty or not and no matter how much the car costs (though price paid does figure into it). I could buy a £1500 Corsa from the crappy lot down the road from me, no warranty, and if the engine blew up 2 weeks later they would be legally obligated to sort it.

GreenN_Gold > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 13:23

1

Here’s a story that probably makes me out to be a bad person. I’ll try to keep it short. A couple is looking at a used minivan (I’m the salesperson). They ask me if the van has been in an accident. I don’t know the answer (this is the truth), but I manage to convince them that we rarely stock vehicles that have been in an accident because they are difficult to sell (this is also the truth). They are now convinced the van has not been in accident. They later find out the van has been in an accident, using CarFax. They call the GM and raise hell and threaten to sue. The GM calls me and asks, “Did you tell these people the van had not been in an accident?” I say, “No.” (Because I hadn’t.) The GM immediately hangs up the phone. Obviously he didn’t want me to speak another word. He had the answer he needed.

Now, I guarantee you this couple will tell everyone they know and swear up and down that they were lied to. In reality, they were led to believe what they wanted to believe.

You may indeed find this sleazy, and I wouldn’t disagree, but you are constantly pressured by management to sell cars, and you work for commission and you have rent and bills hanging over your head constantly. It’s part of the reason I quit selling cars.

GreenN_Gold > AndyG_UK 10/08/2015 at 13:29

1

I’m not sure how that makes sense either. Either there is a warranty or there isn’t. How long does this “no warranty” that fixes engines last? 3 weeks? 4 weeks? 3 months?

SteveLehto > GreenN_Gold 10/08/2015 at 13:31

2

And that is how about 99% of this happens. There are a lot of gray areas in the middle. The only way to stay out of them is to ignore everything spoken and rely only on the written documents and your own research (which includes inspections etc).

GreenN_Gold > Bdog 10/08/2015 at 13:32

0

That sounds like pretty excellent mileage!

(I also make a habit of un-greying anyone who posts a pic of their own car(s))

SteveLehto > AndyG_UK 10/08/2015 at 13:32

0

Where would I find these laws? I’m fascinated by how the laws work in other countries.

GreenN_Gold > KPKING 10/08/2015 at 13:34

0

The Finance guy told me I needed an extended warranty because my vehicle had AWD. This was a Subaru dealer. 99% of the vehicles are AWD. After I declined, he told me I should also consider the extended warranty because “all turbos leak.” Thanks, but no thanks.

AndyG_UK > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 13:40

1

UK sale of goods act, Honest John has a good section on it, covers new and used vehicles -

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/consumer-rights

It’s not simple and everything depends on price paid, what you can expect as reasonable for what you paid etc, so the sunroof breaking on your £1500 15 year old Corsa bought from Bobs Discount cars would probably get you no where (but if it was advertised with a sunroof you maybe could reasonably expect it to work for a reasonable amount of time!) but the engine imploding 2 weeks after you bought it, you would win that and most dealers would fix it (or more likely take the car back and refund you before it got to court).

Bearded Bastard > SteveLehto 10/08/2015 at 13:43

1

You could do a candid camera type show seeing you get upsold or lied to on a new vehicle. Include as many cheesy effects as well, laugh track and all. See how far the salesmen will go to try to get out of the holes they dig.

SteveLehto > Bearded Bastard 10/08/2015 at 13:46

2

I’ve thought about it. I’ve gone along with other people who have bought cars and it is so hard for me to not just punch some of these salespeople. Some of them really do say crazy things.

pat34us > GreenN_Gold 10/08/2015 at 13:50

1

all turbos leak.

He isn’t lying if he is stupid, they leak compressed air into the engine....or something.